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  • The fate analogy

     Rocky Kajla updated 6 months ago 7 Members · 19 Posts
  • Rocky Kajla

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    December 16, 2020 at 7:15 pm
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    Few days back I was thinking about an analogy and I thought of sharing the same. Do give it a read. Any contrasting views are always welcomed.

    Q – Do you believe in fate?

    – There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who believe in fate and those who don’t. Let’s classify them as A and B respectively.

    A – He is a person who strongly believes in fate. He thinks that fate is already decided for everyone at the time of their birth, even for him. So he decides to do nothing and thinks that he will become what he is destined to become. 20 years later, he achieves nothing. So he blames his fate and thereon accepts the fact that he was destined to become nothing and that’s why he’s achieved nothing.

    B – He is among those people who don’t believe in fate at all. He thinks that people only achieve what they work for. So with this belief, he works hard to achieve his goal, and 20 years later, he achieves what he wanted and becomes a successful man.

    Now suppose, A (who believed in fate) nevertheless works hard thinking that he will achieve what he wants (which is probably written in his fate). If later on, he becomes a successful man like B, he will be under the impression that his fate was to eventually become a successful man.

    Analogy – No matter what the possibility is, none of the above persons will ever know whether fate is real or just an illusion. In the end, you become what you work for; you get what you work for (even I fate is real).

    So what kind of a person are you – A or B?

  • Noshin Siyera Esti

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    December 16, 2020 at 8:31 pm
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    Basically, as a Muslim I believe in fate. But as a pragmatic human I always believe that ‘ No pain, no gain” I believe in working hard!

    • Ari Horesh

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      December 16, 2020 at 10:48 pm
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      What is fate to you? And why is one not able to “gain” without “pain”?

    • Rocky Kajla

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      December 17, 2020 at 9:07 am
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      Ok, that’s interesting. But that’s what I said in the end – no matter what the possibility is (whatever your beliefs regarding fate is), in the end, you will achieve what you work for. Suppose you want to become a doctor now, and in the future you become a successful doctor because of your hard work. One day, as a believe of fate, you’ll probably say this to yourself in the future “My fate was to become a Doctor, and that’s why I’ve become a doctor today as I am”. So no matter what you believe regarding fate, you’ll never know whether fate is real or not, and you’ll never know whether you are a doctor because of your fate or it’s because of your hardwork.

      (Please don’t misunderstand; I’m not challenging your belief at all)

      • Ari Horesh

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        December 21, 2020 at 5:26 pm
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        Oh damn I forget to respond to this ?

        You’re right, it really is an interesting thought experiment. And indeed, you will never know.

        And it is exactly this notion of never knowing that undermines the idea of fate. Maybe put simplistic, but in the same way you could say some some supranatural fish somewhere outside of our solar-system is controlling the way we live (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot).

        Once again, very interesting thought experiment. Thanks for starting this conversation, this got me interested in the topic ?

      • Rocky Kajla

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        December 22, 2020 at 7:44 pm
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        Hahaha!! This supranatural fish got me laughing. I never thought like this. Coz sometimes I believe there is no God (sorry for saying this), or that Nature is the true God – Nature controls everything (for ex – global warming happens, glaciers will melt to give us a warning; we cut forests, wild animals will come out to let humans know they are crossing their limits; mankind was probably moving too fast and destroying things, Covid-19 was introduced to let nature heal itself of the pain caused by humans; and so on). In essence, everything is cause and effect. Everything that happens will be a result of something past, and will be the cause of future reactions (A chain reaction).

        Thanks for sharing the wiki article, I will definitely give it a read.

        And you’re welcome!! ?

        • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Rocky Kajla.
  • Filipe Sant’Anna

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    December 16, 2020 at 9:55 pm
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    Uhh… Why did you ever think about this in these terms?

    The thing about analogies is that they usually serve to represent some concept in another way. Which I don’t think was the case here…

    That notwithstanding, I can’t say I ever gave much thought to the idea of fate in general, but I do know that luck is real and it plays a damned big part in my life.

    • Rocky Kajla

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      December 17, 2020 at 9:36 am
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      Well the last I checked, analogy meant “a comparison between two things that shows a way in which they are similar”. So that’s why I said – whatever your beliefs regarding fate are, ultimately you’ll never know whether it is real of not (irrespective of whether you believe fate is real or not). So, that’s why I’ve used the word analogy here. But if I am thinking wrong, feel free to correct me.

      As for luck, luck is different from fate. But I don’t know if I believe in luck either. All I know is, our actions shouldn’t be dependent on luck.

      • Filipe Sant’Anna

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        December 17, 2020 at 12:33 pm
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        First off, luck is undeniably a thing. And here by luck I mean events in life that happen outside our power to control. Good luck or bad would be a judgement value based on the consequences of these events.

        With that said, our actions definitely shouldn’t be planned accounting for luck, that would be impractical, not to mention that the very nature of luck or chance based events is that their outcome is unpredictable. And here I’m not saying just “Oh, they’re likely or unlikely, or able to be evaluated in a statistical/probabilistic approach”, but rather events for each you really cannot account for. Be it finding 100 dollars on the sidewalk or getting a call saying that the test date for that exam you really wanted to take but weren’t that ready for was moved a month later, or even just meeting someone who will make a huge difference in your carreer.

        <font face=”inherit”>These are luck based events. We have some control over reality, however: noting and making use of that money, using the extra time to study and pass the exam, or going up to that person and developing and </font>maintaining<font face=”inherit”> a business interaction with them are things we can do to make use of said luck.</font>

        So as for your thought of fate…

        Considering that our world is a chaotic system, minute changes in two very similar lives could lead to drastically distinct outcomes. Then considering that no two lives have precisely identical sets of initial circumstances, and you got yourself your fate: the sum of these minor encounters and events that were not possible to prepare/predict/expect for, but which affect the development of events from then on. Thus, in this scenario, fate exists, but it is also very much so subject to autonomy and can be steered either way.

        Now if by fate you mean a set of predetermined events that are supposed to happen in someone’s lives no matter what? That absolutely is impossible to know if it exists or not, and no amount of discussion would provide a meaningful takeaway from believing in such a thing. In fact, it is not even passive of constructive discussion, as there’s nothing known about the topic and thus must be relegated to the realm of pure faith based beliefs.

  • Ari Horesh

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    December 16, 2020 at 10:47 pm
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    This is an interesting thought experiment, I don’t understand why you use the word ‘analogy’ though.

    But in order to really engage in this debate I feel myself forced to ask a very annoying question: what is fate (to you)?

    Once you define it properly I might be able to tell you my personal standpoint, for now I have no idea what you are talking about.

    • Rocky Kajla

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      December 17, 2020 at 9:46 am
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      Okay, so 2 people have already questioned on my use of word analogy. I checked the dictionary meaning which said “a comparison between two things that shows a way in which they are similar”. But maybe, analogy is not the correct word here.

      Coming to the meaning of fate, it means “a predetermined path for an individual”. According to the definition of fate, your future is already decided. So no matter, what you believe, what you will become / achieve in the future, is already decided (like who you’d end up with, what profession you’ll choose, etc.). Some say, your fate is decided (by God) at the time of your birth itself.

      • Ari Horesh

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        December 21, 2020 at 10:12 pm
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        Well, to keep it short: if fate is real and created by “god”, go explain this to the people lying dead in Ethiopia right now, or all the children living in poverty, being abused, sexually trafficked etc; if the “god” chooses our paths he certainly is no better than Hitler or Stalin or Xi Jinping.

        So, no I don’t believe in fate at all. Certainly not if there is a “god” involved (from any religion), he/she/it/… would be a hypocritical son of a b*tch.

      • Rocky Kajla

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        December 22, 2020 at 7:54 pm
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        Well, these are the things that can probably never be explained. So, there is no possible answer I can give to this. We can only feel bad about these things, and to an extent, try to help them.

  • Sindoora Seetharam

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    December 17, 2020 at 3:29 pm
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    Tricky one!! Working hard is a must for everyone at certain point in life, even for person A.

    One has to work hard to become successful… Or they can keep working hard for the rest of their life when they aren’t successful.

    If at all a person becomes successful, he would have a feeling that he is greater than all the rest and there is a very good chance he would start looking down upon people. But if he believes that all his success happened only because of God’s grace, he would be more grateful and kind to people around him!

    • Rocky Kajla

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      December 18, 2020 at 6:28 am
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      So believing in God will be like a constant reminder that they are what they’re today because of God and they’ll forever be grateful.

      Interesting thought!!

      • This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Rocky Kajla.
  • Eden Berenshtein

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    December 21, 2020 at 5:30 pm
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    first of all i love your writing! now let me approach to your analogy about fate. if you point a gun to my head and make me choose i will tell you i belong to group B. but in more broad vision i don’t belive there’s a correct answer to your analogy because life in generall aren’t white or black. i mean until this day i can’t explain a certain things that has happened to me. but i do know one thing for sure the harder i work the more “luckier” i seem to get and the more effort i put in my goals the more valuable expirences i get to endure.

    • Rocky Kajla

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      December 22, 2020 at 7:20 pm
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      First of all, thank you for appreciating my writing!!

      Secondly, yes it’s not possible to know whether fate is real or not. Also, some people will not always fall in one of the two categories – who may or may not believe in fate and may or may not work hard. And yes, I have also felt that lucks turn in our favour when we work harder.

      So all in all, I don’t disagree with any of your points. The only thing is – I tend to think about these things and have a hard time finding a closure or be clear about these things. These things can’t be explained. But it’s good to share these things and know people’s perspective.

      Thanks for sharing yours!!

  • Lily Tang

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    February 1, 2021 at 3:26 pm
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    Hi,

    I believe in fate, but I also believe in being able to change it only if one is highly conscious and working towards it. Like 7% fate and the rest is hard work.

    • Rocky Kajla

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      February 1, 2021 at 7:13 pm
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      Hey Lily, I admire your way of thinking!! There are some things we can’t explain, and therefore we can assign the reason of fate to them. And of course, working towards your goal will come from hard work, and fate will also have a little role to play in it!!

      Thanks for sharing your opinion!! 🙂

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